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H2H 102: Juan Marichal vs. Jim Palmer – Who was Better?

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When you think of the great pitchers of the 1960s and 1970s, the first names that probably come to mind are the likes of Sandy Koufax in the early to mid-1960s, Bob Gibson in the mid to late-1960s, Tom Seaver in the 1970s, etc.  And while those pitchers were certainly legends of the game, two other consistently dominant hurlers from that era who may not have gotten the same fanfare were Juan Marichal and Jim Palmer (in fact, Marichal may be one of the most underrated pitchers in MLB history).  Despite the stark contrasts between the two – Dominican-born vs. All-American, NL vs. AL, West Coast vs. East Coast, etc., there are also numerous similarities in their consistent brilliance over a decade plus each.  Thus, let us compare Marichal and Palmer side-by-side and ask the question:

Who was better – Juan Marichal or Jim Palmer?

The Beginning

Marichal and Palmer could not have grown up in more different environments; nevertheless, both showed great baseball promise as youngsters and were effective pitchers from the get-go at the major league level.

The youngest of four children, Marichal grew up in a small farm village in the Dominican Republic and learned baseball from one of his older brothers; as a youngster, he was friends with the Alou brothers (Felipe, Jesus, and Matty), all of whom would also later play in the major leagues.  From the age of 16, Marichal pitched for a number of local teams before being signed as a free agent by the New York Giants in the late 1950s.  As one of the first Dominican-born pitchers in MLB, Marichal made his big league debut in 1960 and went 6-2 with a 2.66 ERA (132 ERA+, which is an advanced statistic that adjusts a pitcher’s ERA for both his ballpark and the league-wide ERA; 100 is average), 1.07 WHIP, and 58 strikeouts in 81.1 innings pitched.

As for Palmer, he was born in New York City and adopted almost immediately, later moving to California and then Arizona.  Upon graduating from high school in Arizona, he was signed by the Baltimore Orioles and would make his major league debut at age 19 – in a relief role in 1965, over 92.0 innings pitched, Palmer was 5-4 with a 3.72 ERA (93 ERA+), 1.42 WHIP, and 75 strikeouts.  Though he moved to the starting rotation and improved to 15-10 with a 3.46 ERA (98 ERA+), 1.28 WHIP, and 147 strikeouts in 208.1 innings pitched the next year, Palmer subsequently battled arm injuries and was waived/made available for the 1968 expansion draft (Kansas City Royals and Seattle Pilots), but was not claimed and returned to the Orioles.

Career Comparison

For Marichal in the 1960s and Palmer in the 1970s, it could be argued that each player was the most consistently dominant pitcher of their respective decades, racking up 20-win seasons year in and year out – however, while Palmer was consistently recognized for his greatness, Marichal was overlooked annually for the Cy Young Award.

Known for his full wind-up and high leg kick, Marichal quickly emerged as one of the best pitchers of the 1960s, though was often overshadowed by the likes of Koufax and Gibson in the NL throughout the decade.  Following a good 1961 campaign, he broke out with the first of eight straight All-Star seasons (ten All-Star Games in total, though note that there were two All-Star Games in 1962) with an 18-11 record, 3.36 ERA (114 ERA+), 1.23 WHIP, and 153 strikeouts in 262.2 innings pitched.  This was followed by one of his best seasons in 1963 – in a league-leading 321.1 innings pitched, Marichal led the league with a 25-8 record, along with a 2.41 ERA (133 ERA+), 1.00 WHIP, and career-high 248 strikeouts, though was an afterthought for Cy Young.  Of particular note that year, he pitched his first and only career no-hitter (the first one in San Francisco Giants history – there had been no-hitters thrown when the team was in New York) and also faced off against Milwaukee Braves legend Warren Spahn in the so-called “Greatest Game Ever Pitched” – in a 1-0 Giants victory on a Willie Mays home run in the 16th inning, both Hall of Famers hurled complete games.  Additionally, this marked the first of four straight 20-win seasons:

After a somewhat “down” year by his standards in 1967 (14-10 record), Marichal rebounded in the so-called “Year of the Pitcher” in 1968 with a career-best 26-9 record, a league-leading and career-high 30 complete games, a 2.43 ERA (123 ERA+), 1.05 WHIP, and 218 strikeouts in a career-high and league-high 325.2 innings pitched, in the process finishing a career-best fifth for MVP.  Even with the pitching mound being lowered the next season, he was arguably even better: 21-11 record (including a league-high 8 shutouts) with a career-low and league-leading 2.10 ERA (168 ERA+), a league-best 0.99 WHIP, and 205 strikeouts in 299.2 innings pitched.  Ultimately, Marichal would have one more great season with the Giants in 1971, going 18-11 with a 2.94 ERA (117 ERA+), 1.08 WHIP, and 159 strikeouts in 279.0 innings pitched to garner a final All-Star selection and finish eighth for NL Cy Young (remarkably, it was the only time he finished in the top 10 for Cy Young!).  Over the next two years, he had a combined 17-31 record and nearly a 4.00 ERA and was subsequently sent to the Boston Red Sox.  A year later, Marichal joined the Dodgers, but pitched sparingly in his last two MLB seasons before retiring in 1975 at age 37.

During the 1970s, Palmer would establish himself as arguably the best pitcher in the AL.  After improving to 16-4 in 1969 (including his only career no-hitter), he broke out in 1970 with a 20-10 record (including a league-leading 5 shutouts), 2.71 ERA (134 ERA+), 1.19 WHIP, and a career-high 199 strikeouts in a league-high 305.0 innings pitched – in the process, Palmer earned the first of six All-Star selections and finished fifth for AL Cy Young.  Moreover, this marked the first of four straight 20-win seasons (and eight overall in the decade):

Though an elbow injury limited Palmer to a 7-12 record in 1974, he quickly rebounded with another string of four consecutive 20-win seasons, including three straight years leading the league in wins:

Though 1978 would be his last All-Star and 20-win season, Palmer remained a solid starting pitcher for another half-decade.  He won his final Gold Glove in 1979, had a 16-10 record in 1980, and then, had the last great season of his career in 1982 – with a 15-5 record, 3.13 ERA (129 ERA+), a league-best 1.14 WHIP, and 103 strikeouts in 227.0 innings pitched, he again finished runner-up for AL Cy Young at age 36, this time to Pete Vuckovich.  Following two more seasons with the Orioles, Palmer retired in 1984 at age 38, having spent his entire career in Baltimore and never allowing a grand slam in his career; interestingly, he tried to make a comeback with the team in 1991, but never made it out of spring training.

Overall, with the benefit of three extra seasons and close to 500 additional innings pitched, Palmer compiled more career wins (and losses) with a slightly better career ERA and ERA+ than Marichal, but the latter had a lower career WHIP with more strikeouts.  Deconstructing those career numbers on a season-by-season basis, Palmer may have won 20 games more frequently (8 to 6), but was never an overpowering pitcher, as evidenced by Marichal’s 6 to 0 advantage in 200-strikeout seasons.  The same dichotomy can be seen in their career awards and achievements – on one hand, Palmer has the three Cy Youngs (in contrast, Marichal never came close to winning one) and four Gold Gloves, but on the other hand, Marichal made more All-Star teams (10x vs. 6x); ironically, Palmer did not even make the All-Star team for two of those Cy Youngs!  Summarizing their respective careers using Wins Above Replacement (WAR), it is likewise very close, with Palmer coming out slightly ahead at 68.5 to 62.9, in part driven by a longer career.  Even in retirement, Marichal was underrated – he had to wait a few years before making the Hall of Fame in 1983, while Palmer was a first ballot selection in 1990.

Regular Season Statistics

Juan MarichalPlayerJim Palmer
16 (1960-1975)Seasons19 (1965-1967, 1969-1984)
471Games Played558
3,507.0Innings Pitched3,948.0
243-142W-L Record268-152
2Saves4
2.89ERA2.86
123ERA+125
1.10WHIP1.18
2,303Strikeouts2,212
52Shutouts53
62.9Wins Above Replacement68.5
10xAll-Star Games6x
–MVP–
–Cy Young3x
–World Series Titles3x
1x ERAOther Awards2x ERA, 4x Gold Glove
1983Hall of Fame Induction1990

Source: Baseball-Reference.com

Unlike their regular season dominance, the postseason experiences of Marichal and Palmer were very different – the former had limited playoff success, while the latter was one of the most decorated postseason pitchers of his era.

With the prime of his career taking place in the pre-expansion era (i.e. when the AL and NL pennant winners met directly in the World Series), Marichal only had two career playoff appearances.  In the 1962 World Series, a seven-game loss to Mickey Mantle and the New York Yankees, Marichal started Game 4 and pitched 4.0 shutout innings in a no-decision.  Later, in a four-game 1971 NLCS loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates, he allowed 4 hits and 2 runs in a complete game loss.

In contrast to Marichal, Palmer made eight career postseason trips, including six World Series appearances, and is the only pitcher to win a World Series game across three decades, winning titles in 1966, 1970, and 1983:

Additionally, Palmer was also on the losing end of the World Series 3x: 1969 to Seaver and the New York Mets, and in both 1971 and 1979 to the Pirates, winning just one of his five World Series starts across those years.

Playoff Statistics

Juan MarichalPlayerJim Palmer
2Games Played17
12.0Innings Pitched124.1
0-1W-L Record8-3
–Saves–
1.50ERA2.61
0.67WHIP1.21
10Strikeouts90
–Shutouts2

Source: Baseball-Reference.com

Every athlete goes through a natural career lifecycle, from starting off as a rookie to reaching peak years of performance and finally, declining into the inevitable retirement due to a combination of age and/or injury; both Marichal and Palmer were workhorse pitchers into their mid-30s before gradually declining into retirement.  For Hall of Fame caliber players across sports, I like to look at a concept I call a “decade of dominance.”  The thinking behind this is that for most Hall of Fame type careers, there are roughly 10 great seasons that define an athlete (this idea is embodied in a sense by the NFL’s All-Decade teams), though due to injury or other factors, they might not be 10 consecutive years.

Decade of Dominance

Juan MarichalPlayerJim Palmer
1962-1971Decade of Dominance1969-1973, 1975-1978, 1982
359Games Played368
2,805.0Innings Pitched2,818.2
202-97W-L Record200-94
2Saves3
2.65ERA2.53
1.06WHIP1.12
1,940Strikeouts1,634
46Shutouts50
57.4Wins Above Replacement59.7

Source: Baseball-Reference.com

In normalizing for career length, the decades of dominance for Marichal and Palmer are extremely comparable: roughly 200 wins apiece against fewer than 100 losses each, Marichal with the better WHIP and strikeout numbers, Palmer with a superior ERA, more shutouts, and a marginal edge in WAR.

My Thoughts

If you had to guess the winningest MLB pitchers of the 1960s and 1970s, respectively, you might guess Gibson for the 1960s and Seaver or Carlton for the 1970s, but in reality, those honors belong to Juan Marichal and Jim Palmer.  Though they may be underrated in a historical context and vs. their contemporaries, the duo were among the most consistently excellent pitchers of the second half of the 20th century.  Upon retirement, Marichal was the winningest Latino pitcher in league history (since surpassed by Dennis Martinez and Bartolo Colon) and paved the way for a generation of arms such as Pedro Martinez.  Meanwhile, Palmer was dominant in both the regular season and playoffs for the Orioles, earning a trio of both Cy Young Awards and World Series titles in the process.  As underrated as I believe Marichal to be and as high as his peak was (he definitely deserved more Cy Young consideration throughout the 1960s), ultimately, I think Palmer was just a little bit better – more 20-win seasons, slightly better career totals, the three Cy Youngs, and incredible playoff success.

Thus, after weighing their careers against each other in terms of statistics, achievements, and impact, the winner of this faceoff is:

Jim Palmer

As always, vote for your choice and leave your thoughts and comments below.

Who was better - Juan Marichal or Jim Palmer?
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